GRS 16-ton mineral wagon

[Sleeper Agent]

Cheers Doddy and Ash. I don't have my air brush kit set up yet nor do I have the necessary SB357 transfers (given that everything else was inclusive I assumed they were as well) so don't expect the model to be fully finished anytime soon

Do I see some holes in the plate between the w-irons? These are handy for those wishing to bolt to the floor if they are.

Said holes are indeed there, though with the tight fit of the units I think glue would be quite sufficient unless you foresee a spectacular derailment. Annoying that is is exactly what I did this afternoon as things looked ok but then I realised there is a flaw in the kit! The instructions show narrow W-iron units that are similar to some of Mike's kits but the wider ones provided are designed to fit between the bufferbeam and the moulded ribbing in the central area.

This results is the wheelbase being too wide and now I need to saw a cm or so off the sides closest to the centre area Not thrilled but from the remaining stock figure I know someone else recently bought one of these kit so hopefully you're reading this or have already spotted the issue. No mini axle box springs were provided either from what I can deduce but this would be case of simple human error. Anywho i'll contact the GRS to try and ensure the issue is sorted out before the next batch is produced.

Regards
Steve

[AshleyW]

yes if they only had 6 then surely they will take heed and have the next batch of w-irons lazer cut to correct spec. the bolts through the floor may not look the part, but with such an expensive wagon, i myself would prefer to bolt them down and in the case of the issue mentioned, gives chance to do such a task, if no already glued into place. does the brake lever ratchet have a decent length spigot through the sole bar?

[MikeWilliams]

I hope this is now all sorted put Ashley?

I have some sympathy for manufacturers when a new kit comes out.  I know, it should be tested, tested again and perfect, but sometimes the best laid plans of nice and men ....

We all make mistakes, its what you do about the that matters.

Mike

[Doddy]

Maybe not yet Mike

Here is the latest link to the GRS 16ton wagon

https://www.grsuk.com/shop/errors/404.aspx?aspxerrorpath=/shop/BR-16T-Mineral-Wagon-Kit-M15541

[hornbeam]

I spoke to Micheal at GRS about this and other things. The kit is having the issues sorted out and they are also modifying the axle boxes and buffers so they don't need drilling out- feedback was people were finding this stage hard to do.
He also mentioned feedback had been very positive other than the issues mentioned.

[MikeWilliams]

I hope this is now all resolved and the wagon completed?

Mike

[AshleyW]

was asking G.R.S about it to add to trade news next time , here's the reply.
"Yes, all amended now. The w-irons fret has been trimmed to fit correctly now, the moulding has not been adjusted. We have also had the axle boxes and buffers drilled out to help with assembly."

[Bruce_L]

As folk want some experience and comments of these kits, so I might as well add mine.

I acquired two of these kits before xmas as I knew there would be a need for something to do after it while either a lock-down or terrible weather, or both (as it has become) during the time that little else could be done.

First of all, I would argue that these are easy for beginners to build. There's no upper superstructure to do of course, and the resin cast is excellent. But once you get into the chassis, it's quite difficult. Fortunately I have built similar ones so it wasn't all head-scratching for my first attempt.
The W's are ready cut and are part of the steel wheel supports all in one piece. The two units (one for one each end of course) are nice and neat and press into a space each under the body (GRS says glue them in), but you have to work out which way round they fit - in theory you could have 3 different wheel-bases! You have to work out how to get 9'.
I decided to open up the holes noted in the steel and fix them with 6BA nuts and short bolts in case I ever need to remove them, or worry about them parting from the body. The axle boxes slide in nicely with a bit of grease. The pin under the dummy leaf springs has to be cut to a suitable length and small (no, tiny) coil springs have to be fitted (if you get that far (their usual destination is on the carpet followed by a grovel to find them again). The springs anyway, are almost useless as the amount of spring is so small they don't lift the body.
Fitting the axle-boxes keepers provides some experience with what GRS call rivets. These are tiny (No, almost invisible (especially on the floor!) and are of two sizes. The larger ones don't fit the holes in the keepers, but as you find later, they don't fit the brake gear either, leaving you without enough to do all the places. Trying to drill the tiny holes to a bit larger is hard (try to use sub-1mm modelling drills on steel - they will often burn themselves out). You can, of course, spend a few evenings with a small round file to get the right size where you need them.
But why, oh why didn't GRS make the holes and 'rivets' fit properly? They had to drill/laser-cut the holes anyway. On top of this problem, brake blocks have 3 holes which are designed to take rivets through to the laser-cut steel. Yes, there were 3 holes but they are not the same spacing as the blocks so the rivets won't go through (and the hole size was again wrong in the steel). I gave up trying to get the larger rivets through and made do with one smaller rivet through one hole and plenty of cyano to hold it all together. Again I didn't think there would be much force on this area.
On the good side, the cut steel pieces fit very well into the cast space arranged so that the resin brake blocks are about in the right place. A bit of adjusting with pliers or filing of the resin block is sometimes necessary. They then are glued under the body. I did consider nuts and bolts again, but decided that the brake frame wouldn't take any force so would be OK with glue.
Once fitting, you can glue or solder them.

The buffers supplied are Slaters sprung and are very nice. I'll be using them for future builds I think.
The draw hooks are as usual, but not sprung either each one or a spring from one end to the other. Instead they supply a brass rod with instructions to shape a hook at the back of each hook. So the hooks will move in and out depending what pushes and pulls at any end.

That's about that.
Just to say that the first truck was a lot of fiddling about and it took about a fortnight to finish (amongst other house jobs!), but the experience of the first one was very useful and I did the second one in less than a week.

I've still do the painting and weathering, and cut some polystyrene blocks to support a false floor covered with coal, but that's it! I hope it helps anyone who is starting with this sort of truck.
Bruce

[IanT]

Sounds like it's generally a nice kit Bruce but with maybe a few small things to sort out.

With regards opening up small holes in thinner material - a set of "cutting" broaches is useful. I have a very inexpensive Indian set I purchased from Cousins UK (usual disclaimer) that I use to fit taper pins for small fabrications. Mine are carbon steel but they should work OK in mild steel, provided the laser cutting hasn't hardened the area around the hole. Certainly in brass, it's much easier to enlarge an existing small hole using a broach than a small drill (which will often snag).

Smaller sized cutting broaches are sold in sets and even Bergeon ones are not too expensive (at least when compared to small taper-pin reamers that is!) but in the larger sizes (3.75mm up) you can buy them individually. The broaches 'nominal' size is the maximum cutting diameter. The taper is a metric standard and Cousins also sell matching brass and steel taper pins that can be very useful.

Anyway - good luck with your wagons. It certainly looks like we are not getting out & about anytime soon.

Stay Safe Everyone!

Regards,

IanT

[Bruce_L]

Thanks Ian. I'd forgotten about broaches, but I still think that a kit is generally to assemble, so holes should already be the right size.


how do i check my monitor size



A couple of pics, the one with two trucks shows the difference between the latest kit and the previous version.

Soon will be building No.3 in the form of a Shunters wagon. A bigger challenge I think!
Bruce

[AshleyW]

found a slightly cheaper alternative ! prob not as good, but worth investigation maybe ?
https://3dprollingstock.com/16t-mineral-wagon/

[John Candy]

It seems to suggest that Slaters wheels are included in cost....and those cost  c.15GBP per set?
If that is so, then at first sight, they appear very acceptable at 70GBP a throw ... a "BOGTWOF" (buy one get two free) by comparison with the GRS offering.
Certainly would make a 40 wagon coal train more affordable (just add a 4F or a J39)
John.

P.S. Slightly mystified as to why the G1 examples are 20GBP more expensive than G3 ........ is there a mistake in pricing?

[Chris_P]

One obvious difference is these lack brake gear leaving a rather naked appearance to the finished wagon.  This seems to be a common issue with many (but not all) of their other offerings.   Some of the pictures on their site such as the Toad brake https://3dprollingstock.com/brake-wagons/ also show the marks inherent with the printing process (apparently vertical rather than along the planks) which may require careful sanding to get a good finish.

[AshleyW]

he will be adding brake gear, i'd already mentioned that to him, i think he just wanted to show what he'd got to thus far. i know what members are saying about the "pencil" lines that you get in 3d printed parts, but some grime and rust on such a wagon would cover it up i suppose. anyway, along with ALD models, we now have two extra new sources of loco's and wagons in gauge 3, it can only be good for the hobby.