GRS 16-ton mineral wagon

[MikeWilliams]

I see on the GRS website that the long awaited 16-ton mineral wagon kit is available at £219.  Having seen the patterns this should be areal game changer for GRS and bring them up to the best available in our scale.  But has anyone here got one?   Any detail pictures?

Mike

[John Candy]

Why, if a Slaters van costs 145GBP, does a GRS open have to cost 219GBP (and GRS will be paying Slaters less than 145 for those)?
I suppose they will say "economy of scale (of production)" but would Slaters be likely sell more units?
A decent mineral train would need at least a dozen but they have only 6 in stock....not that many would be likely to fork out nearly 3K in one go on wagons .... even if if they had time to build them.
A dozen Flexikit 12 ton 5/7/8 plank opens would cost <1K by comparison and even the same quantity of Williams Models "standard" kit wagons would run to only around 1.5K ..... and, in terms of units of production, "economy of scale" must be comparable with GRS (but GRS does have to cover the costs of a retail shop which probably accounts for a large slice of the price).
"Cottage industries" will always be likely to offer better value than retail concerns, with their high overheads.
There was a lot of "talk" about the Agenoria brass kit (by the "other" Mike Williams) at the time it was announced/introduced..... I cannot remember the price but it will be found in old Newsletter adverts..... did anyone ever buy/build one of those?
Regards,
John.

[IanT]

Looks to be a really nice wagon kit Mike - at least judging from the photo - but it is also on the pricey side I'm afraid.

Regards,

IanT

[MikeWilliams]

The GRS kit looks to have cast brass axleboxes and metal brakes, whereas these are all plastic on the Slaters kit.  I am not making a judgement, but these things add to the price.  Slatera make a lot in house which helps the costs.  I also believe that the GRS kit should be possible to assemble in 1/10 of the time it takes for a Slaters, which means RTR might not be much different in price.

But all that is why I asked whether anyone had the GRS kit which I hope may be the start of a new era for them.

Mike

[hornbeam]

Well it's a totally different kit to the flexi kits John having a floor and a one piece body. I image in it's a dam sight easier to build than the all metal version that was offered by another supplier, Any mention of GRS and there always seems to be a moan.

Anyway moving on, I've seen one in the flesh- the display Model and it's fantastic. A great body moulding, fully sprung chassis, slaters buffers. Unfortunately for them I have 5 of the old version so don't need anymore. I'm hoping this will be the start of a few new kits from them but they are finding costs rising along with the fact Micheal isn't getting any younger so we shall see.

[John Candy]

The GRS kit looks to have cast brass axleboxes and metal brakes

.... but so do Williams Models kits..... at around 60%in price!

Well it's a totally different kit to the flexi kits John having a floor and a one piece body

Yes, easier to construct than a Flexikit but some people have more time than cash "to splash around" ..... and "economy" was the ethos which inspired Flexikits.

Regards,
John.

[hornbeam]

   Sorry but it's not comparing apples with apples. One has a professionally cast one piece body one doesn't (no offence mike) Im getting to the point of not bothering on this forum as your constant nitpicking comments on GRS is not needed. Another recent one was moaning about some of their second hand prices it's not needed and not helpful.

   Gauge 3 would not be what it is today without them. In fact I wouldn't have moved from 16mm narrow gauge if it wasn't for GRS. No they are not perfect but of there was money to be made we'd see other manufacturers bring out endless locomotive kits and rolling stock but we don't do we. I've had issues sometimes but they have always been helpful and I've always ended up with a finished item I'm pleased with.

Constructive criticism is one thing but Constant bitching is another.
   
   

[LankyTank]

But Simon, John is only expressing his opinion - which we are all entitled to do.

It's a bit like life, one can stop & exchange different opinions, arguments, punches, bullets - or one can simply walk on by.

Historically, John may have been seen to 'have picked fault' with GRS products, if he has stumbled during a build, however, one could see it as highlighting short comings ALONG WITH a workaround or resolution to the problem encountered.

A don't recall him consigning any kit (or whatever) to the bin & claim that it was 'unbuildable' - that would be most unproductive - no, a number may still be W.I.P but a good number have been completed, warts an' all.

To throw my tuppenny worth in, in my opinion, £219.00 for a wagon kit is just a little bit on the steep side (I'll not be buying any) - but then, I'm a Yorkshireman......!

[John Candy]

One has a professionally cast one piece body one doesn't (no offence mike)

Simon,
Mike's "standard" wagon kits (at c. 125GBP) ARE professionally cast by CMA : The "like-for-like" comparison is between the GRS kit @219 and Mike's @125.

Regards,
John.

[MikeWilliams]

Just to be clear, I started this thread to make people aware of the new GRS kit and to ask if anyone had experience of it.  It was not my intention to say "mine's better than yours".

So, coming back to the subject, a 16ton is much too late to be of interest to me but I really hope it sells well for them and I would really like to hear a report from somebody that has built one.  From my knowledge of the patterns and the design it was never going to be cheap, but it should (note: "should") be good.

Mike

[AshleyW]

i had asked for a copy of the instructions. it does look rather good. the only GRS (by that i mean plastic/resin) type thing is the body, the other parts all seem like what other traders have in certain kits (w- irons folded up with a base plate). the brake gear is like what i have on some wagons i purchased from a widow, stamped out to represent the whole gear, rather than made up from all lots of items and folded from the mounting edge. apart from their method of glue-ing the w-iron units and brake gear to the underside of the body (i'd prefer to bolt it for possible removal) it does look very good and i'm sure as described, it's something that the "average" modeller can acheive a good result with.  perhaps if they sell well, the price may go down. i'd like 20 plus for a calder valley coal train!!!

[MikeWilliams]

Thanks Ashley.  20 x £219, that's ... errr.  Must have got that wrong.  £219 x 20 is ... Gosh are you sure you need that many!

Mike

[Sleeper Agent]

Well I decided I take the plunge. Crossing the £200 threshold certainly restricts the notion of building up a long rake but all in all it is a very nice kit. Bar the top edge the one piece body is extremely smooth and crisp, but that area is easy to cross file and sand (need to study some pics to judge the lack of interior detail bar the doors though).
Concerning below deck the W-iron units fit very snuggly and being all done allows one to move straight onto the axle boxes.

Annoyingly i've managed to be less than parallel with the drilling out on some of these despite my best effort with the pillar driller but no doubt I can get the second wheel set to turn freely with a little more tinkering.
The sprung buffers took very little work to make good, just scraped out the powder and used a cutting broach to clear out the small hollow between the spring and the nut.
Still a bit to go obviously but for an evening's work it's come together with very little hassle, perfect kit for a beginner 

[AshleyW]

look forward to seeing more . do i see some holes in the plate between the w-irons? these are handy for those wishing to bolt to the floor if they are.

[Doddy]

Well I decided I take the plunge.

Like others, I am looking foward to further news as this project progresses.