Painting of cattle wagons

[MikeWilliams]

I thought the Forum might be interested in a little detail found recently.

I'm ready to paint my first cattle wagon and need to do the inside first.  In pre-Grouping days they were liberally coated with Limewash to keep down infection and this always dribbled through the gaps in the lower parts of the sides and down the outside too, such that cattle wagons can be spotted in pictures way down a train due to their white lower parts.  The practice was discontinued later when they found it was poisonous!

Anyway, Ken Cottle mentioned in passing that on the GWR the Limewash wasn't just splashed around, but the whole of the inside was actually painted with it.  Having asked around and looked at photos, it is now clear that the LNWR did the same and the whole of the inside - floor, sides and ends - were painted with the stuff right up to roof level.

Does anyone happen to whow whether this was standard practice on other railways, or whether perhaps there was an RCH directive on the matter?

Thanks,

Miike

[Ted Sadler]

There was some correspondence on this topic in the model railway press in the 1960's - don't ask for references! I recall that it was stated to be common practice to limewash all cattle wagon interiors to a greater or lesser extent. I have a picture of GWR cattle wagons done both liberally and sparingly in the same train. I believe the practice was carried out for around 50 years, until the time of World War 1, after which no photos exist (that I know of) of limewashed wagons.

At the height of this practice, both cattle docks at stations and the cattle themselves were even coated! Limewash was used on Victorian farms to "clean up" walls, probably because of its highly alkaline nature.

Regards, Ted

[Andy B]

There was a recent article in Midland Record or the Midland Railway Society Journal (can't remember which) about this subject - IIRC, it stemmed from a MR notice that was put out following an outbreak of Foot & Mouth disease.
I'll see if I can find it.

Andy

[MikeWilliams]

Thanks both.  I think it was a little later than WW1 when it was discontinued.  The LNWR photo I was looking at was taken in late 1923 and it's absolutely covered in the stuff!  I suspect it was 1924-30.

Mike

[Andy B]

My memory wasn't quite right - the article I was thinking of (Midland Railway Society Journal issue 42) was actually about the Skipton Cattle trade and refers to several pre-1900 MR documents on cleaning and disinfecting cattle wagons.

Midland Railway Journal No.30 has a couple of nice pictures of Bristol St Philip's Goods station - one pre-grouping (date not given) where 28 cattle wagons can be seen all with white insides; unfortunately all 5 of those with visible lettering say 'GW', so doesn't expand on knowledge about other companies.

In contrast, the next picture from 1933 includes 10 cattle wagons of various different designs, all of which are dark inside. The only visible lettering is 'NE - Large - 625761', which is coupled to what I think is a MR cattle wagon which looks to have had a generous application of whitewash on its floor and around the bottom of the doors only.

Andy

[Ted Sadler]

A reference in a 16mm Narrow Gauge Modellers Society newsletter:

http://www.narrow.gauge.btinternet.co.uk/27.pdf

Ted

[MikeWilliams]

Thanks Ted, so Limewash banned from 1947 - much later that I assumed.  Unless of course it was banned earlier and the 1947 document merely reinforces the issue.  Either way, my cattle wagons, whether loaded or empty, will now have white insides!

Mike

[Andy B]

HMRS Journal index to volume 17 (Jan 2000 to Dec 2002) indicates that there was an article on lime washing in part 4 (Page 207).

Any know an HMRS member?

Andy

[Derek King]

With ref. to L&Y Cattle trucks, Noel Coates in Vol. 2 of his book states ".... coating of the lower parts of the inside with a lime wash... The lime wash was usually crudely and thickly applied, as a station was allowed only 24hrs (after arrival) to have a cattle truck ready for traffic again. From the 1920's a suitable disinfectant was used in place of lime."

But re. "the lower parts" there is a photo of cattle trucks being loaded with horses (for WWI use), plus another of a goods porter opening a door taken in 1920, which clearly shows the limewash reaching the top of the open doors and up to roof level on the ends.

Derek.