Trade Support : Just How Big is the G3 Market?

[John Candy]

One of the "downsides" to modelling in G3 is the limited extent of the trade support for the scale.
Garden Railway Specialists are by far the major contributors to the available resources, with several smaller (but slowly expanding) suppliers specialising in particular aspects of the hobby and, in particular, rolling stock.

A survey by the Gauge 3 Society made a couple of years (perhaps a little longer now) revealed that, of the approximately 200 members of the Society, only around 25% were "active" modellers (and considerably fewer operated their own garden or indoor lines).

Of those who do actively build G3 models, a fair proportion are "model engineers" who will never have purchased (nor are likely to purchase) kits from GRS or other suppliers (indeed several are also members of the National 2.5 inch Gauge Association).

Now I know there must be more than a few G3 modellers who are not members of the G3 Society (and hopefully that number will be growing, even if they do not ultimately join the Society) since it would seem that the existing G3 suppliers could not exist (and I hesitate to suggest they are able to make a profit) on sales to the few Society members who do purchase kits and components.

One of the specialist rolling stock kit suppliers (with an expanding range) has sold far fewer than ten of many of the wagon kits in his range and has yet to recover the sums expended (not inconsiderable) in producing the patterns and moulds for the range. This is not an encouraging sign and leaves me wondering how much longer such suppliers will be willing to continue (and when they are no longer able to continue for whatever reason, whether anyone will be willing to continue production).

There are efforts being made to attract more G3 support among modellers moving from the smaller scales but if the projected image of G3 is one of a scale requiring a willingness to scratch build most things and requiring "engineering" skills, then those efforts may be in vain.

It is a "chicken and egg" situation : Which needs to come first, the migration of modellers to G3 to provide a sizeable market or the trade support necessary to attract that migration?

At present it would seem to me that there are trade suppliers willing to gamble on the G3 market expanding but will it expand fast enough and large enough to maintain that commitment?

I don't have the answer and don't expect any of you to supply the answer but what we can all do is support the existing traders.

I recall the adage "use it or lose it".

John

[IanT]

For those of us with longer memories John, the situation is much better now than it was ten or even five years ago. The supply of G3 components (and kits etc) has improved considerably over that time.

I think the problem is that some people expect the G3 market to quickly grow to rival other scales such as G1 or 16mm (even though if you talk to Modellers in those scales you still hear the same complaints by the way - not enough trade support, no models of "X" prototype available etc). I think G3 will continue to grow but is very unlikely to do so at the rate that some seem to expect.

For myself, I'm happy to use Slaters wagon wheels (and not to have to turn up MES wheel castings) and to buy MW Models laser cut W-Irons (and not have to cut them out of sheet steel). A pair of Mikes 9' 6" GN wagon frames cost about six pounds and will get you a long way down the road to owning to a GN 4-plank wagon (and many other types too) if you so desire and are willing to make the effort . Although I can make my own parts, I really am not going to if there are cost-effective commercial parts available. But I agree, Mike is not going to make a great living out of me (although perhaps I should mention I've a few of his excellent wagon kits too).

So, I'm therefore afraid that Gauge 3 is unlikely to ever be the next 'LGB' with a huge range of RTR locos and stock. I expect growth for us to be both slow and some what lumpy as the G3 marketplace slowly evolves.

However I am sure that we will grow and that we will evolve.

The reason we have seen a number of small 'suppliers' enter our market is that they can do things now that would have been both expensive and time consuming not too long ago (unless undertaken in huge volumes).  Mikes laser cut 'W' irons are a good example of this in fact. The compute power and software required by Mike to do this work was not around until very recently. Nor were the relatively inexpensive laser/water cutting machines that enable small firms to offer custom cutting services in small volumes.

Two weekends ago, Ted gave Roger & myself a quick demonstration of how he transforms an old black and white wagon photo into a prototypically correct colour replica of a wagon side (for his modern day version of lithography). From a photo to a usable printout took him about five minutes and resulted in something that would be potentially every bit as good as something commercially produced. In fact even twenty years ago, a 'workstation' capable of doing the job Ted demonstrated would have cost well over a hundred thousand pounds (I know I worked for a company that made them) and been the size of a small fridge.

So, I was not only very impressed but it also made me think about how technology (CAD/CAM, laser/water cut, plastic printing etc) is changing our hobby (and will continue to do so).

The differences between commercial availability and the challenges of scratch building in low volumes (whether as a cooperative group or as a small cottage industry) are not as clear cut as some seem to believe. I think that the boundaries between the two are blurring and that this will lead to lower cost, lower volume manufacturing capabilities that were not considered possible just a few years ago (or even today).  This will benefit not only G3 but many other pursuits that are currently viewed as low volume, specialist markets (and therefore not commercially viable).

So we may not actually need a Bachmann or a Hornby to adopt G3 (not that they ever would) to get the products we like to see. And of course, it is chicken and egg as you say. The more choice, the more willing to choose....

However, that's the future.

In the 'Here & Now', I certainly agree that those hardy souls (Traders)  that have ventured into G3 deserve our support. To that end, they are being invited to the AGM on the 18th Feb and I would urge you to come along, spend your hard earned pennies and help support them.

Regards,

IanT

[John Candy]

I only discovered G3 in the Summer of 2003, on a visit to GRS (with the intention of buying a 16mm loco and stock!) when Michael Adamson introduced me to the scale.
At that time there was sufficient variety of stock available to secure my interest : The supply situation has improved since, although not dramatically and, while the rolling stock ranges have expanded, it is the smaller "essential" items that are still missing, an example being buffer stops.

I started this message thread for the purpose of highlighting the need to support our precious suppliers, since for some traders, their G3 activities are subsidised by their activities in alternative scales.

I agree there is currently little prospect of a Bachmann or Hornby riding to the rescue and that much of our modelling will need to be a combination of scratchbuilding and making use of commercial components where available. Alternatives being "kit bashing" or adapting RTR models from G-scale (although the thought of a plague of "Thomas and Friends" is rather off-putting)!

Apart from the paucity of kits and RTR items, the potential cost of constructing a sizeable G3 system can be a deterrent.
There are ways around this and, as an example, a wagon need not cost 150 Pounds if one is working with a tight budget.

As many of the forum members will know, I produce my own patterns and moulds from which to cast components in resin and metal.
I have spent the past two days casting the body parts (sides, ends, solebars) for five vans ....... total cost of resin in the region of 40 pounds (I already possessed the patterns and moulds which I made a couple of years ago but the cost of producing those was no more than 50 Pounds).
The majority of components to complete these models I shall cast from whitemetal and almost the only parts which I shall buy commercially are the wheels, buffers and couplings.

So it is possible to do G3 on a budget, if you have more time than cash.

Returning to the "chicken and egg" situation mentioned previously, the purpose of "G3 Made Simple" (subject of the competition mentioned in another message thread) is to tempt modellers to "give it a try", particularly those with apprehensions about G3 being difficult and/or expensive.

If the project can attract more to G3, then that expands the market for traders and the cycle of demand and supply will be accelerated.

So, the G3 Made Simple project needs to gather together as many ideas for easily producing models, such as adapting commercially available items, producing  components at home (resin moulding and the "litho" process mentioned in the previous post being examples) and other tips and hints for overcoming perceived problems.

Regards,
John.

[MikeWilliams]

In my - limited - experience, the market is indeed small, but growing steadily.  As Ian says, the trade support is vastly better now than it was a few years ago, and new manufacturers are still joining us.  I would guess that there are four or five times as many suppliers now as there were ten years ago.  That's tremendous growth!

I do however think it important that the trade be encouraged in several ways:

Invite all and every supplier to our annual show (aka AGM).  Including peripheral suppliers of dolls house features, 16mm scale bridges, etc.

Encourage adverts in the Newsletter.  That's the only medium which gets to all members.  It exposes the trade and informs the membership.

Try to get reviews (and "news") of new products in the Newsletter and the mainstream magazines.  With the thousands of GRS kits sold (and hundreds of Brandbright and mine) why are there so few reviews in the model press?

Commission articles on Gauge 3 layouts, be they indoor or out, steam or electric, good or bad.  The best way to encourage the trade is to encourage the scale.  More G3S members equals more sales across the board.

ditto exhibitions.  And especially trade products where even a sample G3 item on the stand of a trader who mainly sells to the lesser scales makes a new audience aware of us.  For example, a single G3 wagon on Slaters's stand at a purely show.

Give the traders feedback.  Apart from occasional GRS-bashing, we don't see much feedback about products and I would like to receive more criticism of my own kits (e.g. above-mentioned reviews).  Its the only way to learn what customers actually want.

Spin-offs.  As a result of Venture, several manufactuers in the smaller scale have been commissioned to make G3 components.  My hope is that they will use these to test the market and then enter it in their own right.

But I also know from experience organising the AGM that with some traders you can offer free exhibition space, cheap Newsletter adverts, free trade news in the Newsletter and cheap flyers to all members - and they still can't be bothered to do it!

On the positive side, from what I've seen and heard, we do seem to be very good at trying out new traders and buying their first G3 item just to see what its like and encourage them.

Mike
www.williamsmodels.co.uk

[John Candy]

Traders : Become More Visible!

Regarding new suppliers and products, I would draw attention to the "New Product Announcements" board in this forum.

Any supplier or trader may use this to advertise products or just to make their existence known : There would seem to be many small suppliers about whom little is known and who seem not to do a very good job of advertising their wares!

It costs nothing to be listed here (and in the G3 Society Newsletter for a modest sum) and all you need do is send your particulars either to me admin@g3forum.org.uk or to Ian Harper newsletter@gauge3.org.uk (Ian will organise your listing here as well as in the Newsletter).

John Candy

[Andy B]

To take this discussion to a slightly different perspective - what do traders offer in terms of the customer's perceived value for money? One measure could be £ spent per hour modelling.
As has been said in past threads, G3 encompasses a very 'broad church' of interests - probably almost as broad as 'O' gauge but with a fraction of the number of people involved.
So take 3 simple scenarios (though we could come up with many others).
1) Modeller 1 prefers to build and operate live steam - he/she wants a 'train' but is not too worried about accurate representation of a prototype carriage or wagon, and doesn't want to spend much time building them. Typical products - 'bashed' LGB or Bachmann (possibly purchased 2nd hand). Low cost per item, low £/hr and low annual spend

2) Modeller 2 wants to build up a good sized collection of rolling stock fairly quickly (finish a wagon in a week?), with a good representation of the original.  Typical products - cast resin / injection moulded, possibly laser cut wood. Fairly high cost per item, high £/hr and high annual spend

3) Modeller 3 only builds a few models per year, wanting very good representation (some may label them as 'rivet-counters') - will typically add enhancements to even the best kits. Typical products - as above, + etched brass. Fairly high cost/item, low £/hr, moderate annual spend.

The G3 trade can't do much for modeller 1 - a few bits of running gear and that's it.
The market for modeller 2 is perhaps reaching saturation  - especially with respect to covered goods wagons? To maintain and enhance this area, I suggest that quality in terms of level of detail and production (e.g. lack of casting distortion) may be the key areas to watch - but recognise that low batch sizes make the latter very difficult to maintain.
I don't think that modeller 3 is really catered for today, but I think that the level of response that a certain etched brass covered wagon kit has received so far shows that demand is there. However, this type of product is unlikely to be viable as a fully commercial product (i.e. one where all R&D costs are covered) - so it will be left up to a few individuals to produce these for their own satisfaction, and cover actual costs but not their time.

As regards kit costs - G'O' wagon kits (4w open or covered) are typically in the region of £30-£60.
G3 is near enough twice the linear size, 4 x area size or 8 x volume /weight - so is a kit price of £90 - £150 unreasonable?

Andy