Craft Cutters?

[IanT]

At the last committee meeting, John W showed a G3 coach which had been built using layers of pre-cut plasticard (supplied by a friend). The end result was an extremely neat scale model and one that delivers what is presumably a 'repeatable' process.

John mentioned that the machine used was available for "about 200 pounds" - which certainly made me sit and up and pay attention. After looking around the Interweb, I think he may have been refering to what is known as a "craft cutter".

Has anyone on this Forum, any real world experience of using a "craft cutter" on plasticard sheet for modelling (or any other) purposes?. If so, I'd like to hear from you.

Ian T

P.S. I don't know what machine was actually used for John's model - but I imagine it was something like this one here:

http://www.mycraftrobo.co.uk/Craft-Robo.html

[cabbage]

Sheila says:

"It could also be a CRICUT machine- but since this is designed for cardmakers the standard cartridges are probably flowers and hearts? and thus less suited to locomotive and carriage work. The one in the URL looks like the best value."

regards

ralph

[IanT]

That is one of the other machines out there Ralph - but my (albeit limited) understanding is that the 'Cricut' machines only work with some form of pre-formatted (ROM?) cartridges that Cricut themselves produce and that you have to purchase individually. As you say, they come with various pre-loaded "craft" designs.

Nice for Birthday/Xmas cards - but not exactly what I had in mind.

However, I suspect that the market for these 'cutter' machines is still developing and the proprietary restrictions that the early providers could get away with are now being eroded by newer suppliers. I want to be able to dump a template direct to the 'cutter' - broadly the same way I do to the printer.

Low cost 2D CNC.....

[Andy B]

Ian,

I have no experience of these machines, but a bit of Googling found Thyme Graphics who are quite local to me, and a lot of reviews say how helpful they are!

So I think it will be worth asking them what the maximum thickness of plasticard they could cut with either the Craft Robo or the more expensive Cougar machines.
Then prepare a test file and get them to do a test piece for a complete wagon / coach.
Do you have a test file ready? If so and you'd like to mail it to me I'll go and open discussions with Thyme. I have a part-built coach in '0' gauge using the David Jenkinson method, so I can take that along to explain what we're trying to achieve.
I'm also very interested in the possibilities of these machines - various Youtube videos show them engraving soft metals too.

Andy

[IanT]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for responding. The Cougar looks like a very useful machine - albeit at 534 pnds it's twice the price of the Craft Robo. However, with 950 grams of cutting force - it presumably can cut much thicker materials. I had a good look around their site and have been trying to understand what is going on "under the hood" in terms of the underlying software. Their primary audience are people who are designing 'craft' designs - and most of the software descriptions reflect this.

I did find this however:

Our BLACK CAT Converter!

Now you can convert all those files that are just sitting there on your computer! Convert ANY file* to a format that most other software packages accept.
Convert from gsd, knk, wpc, svg and from any file format with the option to print, they can all now be converted - EVEN print and cuts in full colour! Convert to Inkscape, Klic-N-Kut Studio and more**
*converts from any software with the option to print
**converts to all software that accepts pdf

This suggests that we could supply a design in a .pdf file and have it cut. In other words, I could use any CAD or other design software (to suit my preferences) and using a public domain 'printer to pdf' converter (such as Cutewriter) generate a cut file. This would be ideal as it would be a simple standard to use. However, it would be good to clarify this area.

I do not have a suitable test file available at the moment, but given some time could do so (I've got a Newsletter to get finished first). If you would like to talk to Thyme and see if they can advise on a) cut-depths possible in plasticard (and indeed cardboard), b) file formats usable and c) whether they will provide a 'cutting' service and at what cost - that would be very useful info indeed.

Regards,

Ian

[Andy B]

Ian,

Email sent to Thyme to open discussions.
I think we share a common view of how we'd like the software to work for us, from a variety of different design sources - I can take dxf's, pdf's, etc to try out.

Will report back in due course.

Andy

[MikeWilliams]

An alternative to craft cutters may be low-power laser cutters designed for home use.  They can cut plywood, MDF and some plastics (but not styrene).  There is no need to go over the lines by hand and press the item our as they cut right through.  But they can also cut part-way through, which is very useful.  AND they can accept a standard .dxf input.

Look at some of the samples here:  http://yorkmodelmaking.com/laser.html    They offer a service at reasonable cost, but I don't know what machine they use.

A good test would be something like a straight sided horsebox?  Or, maybe they could suggest what material would be best for a horsebox/carriage with tumblehome?

Mike

[John Candy]

http://www.brunelmodels.com/LaserCutting/laser.html

These people have been offering laser cut carriages sides, etc. in plastic and plywood for a number of years.

Have often thought about trying them (their charge rates are on the site together with material thickness and other limitations) but have never summoned up the effort to prepare the "drawings" required.

They are in Australia but offer services to British modellers and other countries.

John.

[MikeWilliams]

"effort to prepare the "drawings" required"

I agree John, but the carriage they illustrate looks OK, so an easy test would be to ask them to scale it up and see what happens.

However, the one they illustrate - c1890 LNWR 42ft Composite - is amongst some etched brass kits due to be released by Walsall Model Industries, so maybe they have something else more suitable in their library?

Mike

[IanT]

Thanks Andy,

Look forward to what they have to say.

Regards,

IanT

[Steve Cook]

To save opening up another topic on the same subject, can I be rude and resurrect this one to ask what the outcome was in the end?

I'm very keen on the idea of an automated cutter for styrene (an additional bonus would be being able to create stencils for lettering) so I'm interested as to whether IanT got any further or AndyB had a reply from Thyme.

I've had a look at the Black Cat cutters, but the details imply that their ability to cut styrene is 'limited' (the specs show 0.20ml styrene - wonder if that means 0.2mm thick) which is too thin really - I'd want the ability to cut 40 thou / 1mm as a minimum.

Thanks in advance

Steve

[keith Bristol]

Steve,

I did some work on this and concluded that a CAD controlled router cutter was the only current realistic option. I am CAD literate but the cheap art cutters couldnt cut more than an A4 page approximatly, a bit difficult if you are trying to cut a class 73 side. The cutters that come reccommended are about 1500 - 2000 but after that there are limtless possibilities. I will get one but a massive workload and building baseboards means I havent purchased it yet. Decent units do come up on ebay...

Keith

[IanT]

Hi Steve - good point.

Well I can only speak for my investigations into this area and what I concluded at the time - although perhaps I didn't share it then (my apologies).

I had a good look at the various 'cutters' on the market and clearly there had been improvements to the technology and price/performance in the past year or two. Most of these machines seem to OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) out of China and are then re-badged (and are being distributed) out of the US. I don't have the figures to hand (I don't think I kept the details) but from memory there were cutters (like Black Cat) that were around the 250 GBP mark that would "score" plastikard but that were not muscular enough to actually cut it.

I also saw examples from AnD Products (who made the original LSWR 24' van kit that sparked the interest in "cutters") at Bordon this summer. I had a chat to the guy that runs AnD (Dave/Doug Tillman?) about the cutter he was using and it was a craft-cutter type of device - possibly Black Cat - cannot recall now. He agreed that they didn't really have the beef to do a complete cut through and that the kits needed further cutting (or snapping out in some instances) to get the finished part. This is not necessarily a huge problem and he had perfectly good examples of his G3 kits on show.

However, I wanted something that could do a finished cut in a thicker material, partly because I don't want to have to do too much "Laminating" and partly because if I'm going to have to do some manual work (to finish parts) it becomes less attractive as a "print to kit of parts" technology.

I did find some more expensive cutters (I cannot remember the chinese model numbers). These were about three times the price (at OEM volume pricing) but did generate about four times the cutter force. I could not find these available as a 'retail' product in the US though - so I'm not sure that they are available as a "hobby" system.

My conclusion was that the technology/price performance of "cutters" had not (yet) reached the point where I would want to own one and that for now, I'd be content to buy kits from suppliers like AnD that I think will emerge over time.

Others may have madde more progress though.

Regards,

IanT

[Steve Cook]

Keith and Ian

Thank you very much for the quick responses. It seems you have both come to a similar conclusion regarding the craft type cutters, in that in their current 'hobby' specification, they are not really man enough for the jobs we would like to achieve. I guess that by the time you have gone for an OEM style of cutter with increased cut depth capability, one has started to encroach on the price of a CNC router mentioned by Keith, and a look on the web shows them to be hugely versatile.

Ah well, it was an interesting distraction while it lasted, I think longer term I shall have to save up and wait to see what happens. I'll be interested to see some AnD products at one of the shows though, it'll be interesting to see how someone else has dealt with the challenge.

Thanks again
Steve

[Steve Cook]

Just spotted this while surfing - using a cnc milling machine to make the basic components for an L&Y fish van. It is Gauge 1 (my other 'active' scale), but the principles are the same...and I currently find my mind full of ideas...

Steve